Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

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Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Arevyn » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:17 am

Hey Everyone

So i have a Yamaha DP thatt I am trying to auto sample with Fusion creator and although Im making progress, there are a few setting I cant seem to figure out in the Auto Sampler feature of Fusion Creator.

In the sampler if I use 3 velocity levels, I get one large multisample. If I go up to 4 levels, it creates 2 multisamples (one with 3 levels and then another with 1) Is this right?

The next issue I seem to be having is that my programs are coming out around 90-100 Megs and when I load it up in my 6HD (I have the full memory expansion too) I get a several keystrokes, but then every few keystrokes there is audio dropout and the sound doesnt play. My settings are: Im using about 10 seconds per sample, stereo samples, and looping at 60% to 100%. I dont really understand how the start threshold and recording silence at the end work but maybe I should be using it.

I did watch the youtube video from Garth about how to use the auto sampler for internal VSTi's but there seems to be a big difference between setting up mono synth bass samples and trying to sample a hardware grand piano.

Thanks guys!
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Jesse » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:12 pm

Just curious, but have you tried mono sampling instead of stereo to see what happens?
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby parametric » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:20 am

I've given up on FC.

Last time I checked - the autosample feature still doesn't work. Required parameters mentioned in the documentation -

missing from the UI . . .

The Videos look interesting - but are always . . .

Video not found or access denied both - using FireFox AND Avast SafeZone


Why are they NOT on YouTube?

Does the Fusion Creator Documentation STILL talk about KORG Creator - or has it been fixed . . . . :roll:

I've given up second-guessing HOW they run their Business . . .

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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby parametric » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:05 pm

Further to my Previous Post . . . . . I thought I'd check the situation with FC

I started my exisiting FC (on my laptop) . The new release was announced.

Clicking on the update - it took me to a page called Korg Creator :(

I backed out of that and clicked <visit site>

THERE I found the Fusion Creator update. Downloaded it. Unpacked the archive content (the installer) to the Fusion Creator Folder where the program lives.

Executed the installer. Windows wanted to deny access (originator unknown) I clicked <Run anyway>

Avast announced suspicious file - and promptly sent it to Avast for checking, announcing a 140 minute wait . . . .

The answer CLEAR came back and the update proceeded.

I ran Fusion Creator and checked the AutoSample Feature which is what I am mostly interested in

Sad to report - it is STILL unfinished. :oops:

Below is screenshot of the MANUAL PAGE relating to the AutoSample feature together with the same AutoSample page in the actual open Program.

Fusion Creator mess.jpg
Fusion Creator mess.jpg (252.03 KiB) Viewed 2551 times


Sorry - you'll have to scroll the pic to see what :roll: I mean . . .

As you can see, the Number Programs box is missing from the GUI (The TOP Picture)

It is PRESENT in the Manual . . . (The BOTTOM Picture)

It took several years of asking, together with any number of promised release dates MISSED - BEFORE FC appeared - and this is maybe the third update - and its STILL not fixed.

Gimme a shout when V2 appears. :roll:

parametric
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Arevyn » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:57 am

Well....thats a bummer.

I had hoped that FC would be a good program, and its just ending up rather buggy. Sometimes the autosampler seems to take in my samples correctly, other times it just has this horrid noise after I try to save the program. It seems to be making programs within programs and the samples are only used in one program,and I end up deleting my properly named program.

Garth seems helpful on the phone, but I havent asked him about some of these AS problems yet as Ive just started trying to use it.

I thought it was weird that it says korg in the installation file...

I did find a couple videos on youtube (if you search for "chicken systems" their tutorials come up) but they are only a little helpful. they dont really dig into their own autosampler and show how to use all the functions in different scenarios.

Guess its money spent and lesson learned.

maybe I'll just try to learn how to edit and work with the other piano samples in my 6HD, like the ultimate piano samples from Jesse (Thanks for those)
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby parametric » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:16 pm

I agree Arevyn - it is a bummer - and so disappointing.

I can't really complain as I got the program back when they were testing it prior to release - at no cost . . . .

but I'd really like it to work - and to use it . . . .

I WANTED to AutoSample my SY85 before I parted with it - but you NEED the missing box to enter the NUMBER of Programs in the Bank of the SY that you WANT to sample - BEFORE you start the process.

If it ever works as promised - it would enable me to have all the VOICES and PERFORMANCES from the SY85 on my Fusion.

When I got my second Fusion (the 6HD) I PROMISED to get rid of the SY - for no other reason than SPACE constraints . . .

Garth indeed seems to be generally helpful, but I think his responsibilities spread him too thinly -

and therefore stuff takes longer to get attended to . . .

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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby kpr » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:51 am

You can do the rercordings manually, no need for any auto-sampler. Just use a regular Audio Recording software and hit the keys in close interval until you covered the entire keyboard. Do it with 2 or 3 velocities, if you really need that, but as the Fusion RAM is limited the f velocity might do it and you can make the dynamic response with the Filter. Each note should be not longer than 5 seconds, except the lowest notes, they should be longer. Sustain-loop them with strong crossfade. That's it. Takes a couple of hours to make it. Do the mapping with a software and save it in one of the Fusion supported formats. Since a while I prefer Soundfont. Import it with the Fusionconverter and transfer it to the Fusion. Select an existing Piano type Program Preset which is using the Filter for the dynamic response and replace the previous multisample with your new one. Do a little fine tuning here and there. Done.

It's a good idea doing it in this way as you'll learn the Fusion rather quickly then.
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Arevyn » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:00 pm

I can definitely appreciate the hard work that you do for making samples for the fusion that way Klaus. You put a lot of hard work into making your samples.

I had been hoping since there is an automated way to do it with the program that it would work. Although there are workarounds and doing it the "long way" as it were, I was mainly bemoaning the fact that its one functioon of a program I purchased that doesnt seem to work as intended.

I do have a question though, when you say no more than 5 seconds per sample except for the lower register that helps me a lot. I have been trying to get the nice long decay of the recordings and was trying with first 15 seconds per sample, then 11 seconds, and my latest attempt was 8 seconds per sample, but Im not too good at figuring out looping points so Ill have to get better at that, especially if the main recording is only 5 seconds long.
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby kpr » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:09 am

Which program are you using for looping the samples? It really depends on that because some aren't a big help, especially when you need good crossfade functions. That is important for sound with a decay instead of a continuos sustain level. The crossfade gets a decay sound such a sustain level. The 5 seconds thing is just a thumb rule, for some sounds it's impossible to get a decent loop with only 5 seconds length, especially if they have a wide frequency range in the first place and while the decay phase the high frequencies disappear more and more. Then it's better to use longer samples and try to use only 2 or 3 in the lowest keyboard range. Also you can pass the most upper samples to save memory space. Most important is the mid and upper mid range, the tone color is changing nearly from note to note, so close intervals are most necessary there.
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Arevyn » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:06 pm

Im using the program we've been talking about in this thread, The Chicken Systems Fusion Creator and the included Auto Sampler program inside.

Im still super new to the whole idea of sampling, so at first I thought I needed to record the entire length of the notes ( for as long as there is sound, so ~18-20 seconds for some) I dont really know what crossfade is or how to use it, but Ill start trying to do more research on it.
I assume that piano is one of the hardest things to get to sound right, due to the nature of the sounds and the characteristics can change almost from key to key in some registers. But oh well Ill keep working on it.

Thanks again for all the input guys, I really really appreciate it!
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby kpr » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:28 am

Oh, I see.
Yes, Piano looping is not that easy and doing this needs previous experience in sample editing for sure. I would recommend to begin with something simple, a synthesizer wave for instance. Regarding sample editing know how in general there might be Sound On Sound article or any other online magazine. I did one a while ago, it's a workshops series in 5 parts, published at Amazona. But it's in german language, and when using Google translator the translation isn't recommended, many mistakes. But if you spend 15 dollars, you can buy the book Sample This! I wrote together with Simon Cann, it's in english. You can take a view at Google for free, perhaps it's ok for the moment. https://books.google.de/books/about/Sam ... edir_esc=y
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Re: Hardware Sampling using AS in Fusion Creator

Postby Jesse » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:31 am

Klaus's book "Sample This" has a lot of good information

Also, you might want to go to the official Alesis Fusion web site http://www.alesis.com/products/view/fusion-8hd

Scroll down about half way and on the right side Select Downloads

Download the Fusion Tutorial Pack and any other Official Fusion downloads you may want :)
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