32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

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32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Wed May 09, 2018 5:58 am

The Fusion technically has a 32 track sequencer but it's really just a 16 track sequencer in terms of logical tracks. After all there is only one set of MIDI IN/OUT jacks. So if you have more than 16 tracks in use on the Fusion you have at least two tracks using the same MIDI channel.

How does this work for MIDI file export? Are tracks with the same channel simply combined or is any track over track 17 ignored?
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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby parametric » Sat May 12, 2018 8:59 am

THAT is an interesting point . . . . .

I've never produced anything with that many tracks, I have to say . . . .

Perhaps the alliance to a TRACK somehow allows a midi channel to be used more than

once in a Song, but I don't understand How it would work in terms of midi-sense . . . .

More modern boards using usb for MIDI, (which Sadly the Fusion doesn't,) get around it

with multiple PORTS . . . .

Try loading this file. It has many tracks. It's quite a monster Orchestra, perhaps there

are multiple instances of channel allotment . . .?

Perhaps it might explain something . . . . I've not tried it myself in the Fusion . . .

Bartok5.zip
Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra - 5th Movement
(89.75 KiB) Downloaded 54 times


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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Mon May 14, 2018 7:56 am

I'll give it a look. Thanks Chris.
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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Sat May 26, 2018 7:27 am

Obviously my knowledge of MIDI files is lacking. I've never used them much or delved into the format details.

MIDI files can contain quite a number of tracks, each with logical channel information. That Bartok file above is 29 tracks and inports on the Fusion pretty well. Though when trying to select another song after it, the Fusion is always under the impression that the Bartok song has been modified. A bug. :-)
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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby parametric » Sat May 26, 2018 9:43 am

If you set the Fusion up for GM, it makes quite a reasonable attempt at performing it, though doubtless, if you have better third-party Libraries installed, then better choices can be made in instrumentation . . . .

IIRC, SOME of the tracks do CHANGE their instrumentation part way through. I would guess that Bank select and Program Changes are need to facilitate this. Probably set for General midi, but could be edited to select others?

(I know not if these are in the TRACK data or the MASTER TRACK data . . . .?)

Speaking of the Master Track, it's above Track 1, and only accessible in certain menus.

It's normally used to do GLOBAL things like tempo changes that affect the whole "Song".

It should for instance be possible to do a "rallentando" (Rall) - controlled slowing down of tempo . .

Personally I find it too tortuous to do this in the Fusion - MUCH easier in a DAW . . ..

The <Event List> DOES show ALL the midi events and CCs in the entire piece, but sadly it is NOT implemented very well, as if you edit an event, it then reloads the ENTIRE file, which for THIS PIECE, takes about 20 seconds, each time . .AND places you back at event 001 :roll: - I soon got tired of that . . .

I guess I have a special affection for this piece as I studied it at "A" Level in Music, at School.

It's a Monster Piece in it's Entirety (All five Movements) - and I just thought it was a good candidate to demonstrate what midi could do . . .

When I first found the file, the track listing looked like this:

Tk01 - Piccolo
Tk02 - Flutes
Tk03 - Oboes
Tk04 - Clarinets
Tk05 - Bassoons
Tk06 - Horns I, III
Tk07 - Horns II, IV
Tk08 - Trumpets
Tk09 - Trombones
Tk10 - Tuba
Tk11 - Timpani/Harp II
Tk12 - Percussion
Tk13 - Harp I
Tk14 - Violins I
Tk15 - Violins II
Tk16 - Viola
Tk17 - Cello
Tk18 - Double Bass
Tk19 - Violin I
Tk20 - Violin II
Tk21 - Viola
Tk22 - ?
Tk23 - Cello
Tk24 - Double Bass
Tk25 - Trumpet II, III
Tk26 - Flute II
Tk27 - Oboe II
Tk28 - Bassoon II

Can't really explain the omissions and apparent duplications going on - unless they are related to difficulties of sequencing the piece . . .

The guy who did it is credited somewhere in the file - Track 29 perhaps - IIRC he was Japanese?

IMO, it is rather well done and suggests to me that it was done FROM THE SCORE . . . .

There are a few oddities, when played. A few instruments STICK OUT rather alarmingly, here and there, and also there are some glissandos (portamentos) that "Don't" . . . .

One of these days I may try and bring the might of the Kontakt Library to bear on it, in Reaper . . . if I can find the time . . . . :lol:

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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:16 am

I didn't go through and fix all the banks in that file to the Fusion GM bank so it sounded horrible. I just wanted to test the MIDI out and it certainly did the trick. My best GM hardware for that was my Roland JV-1010 which handled it admirably.

Agreed, that MIDI file is technically very impressive.
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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby parametric » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:26 am

Indeed.

I think it is fair to say that a purpose-built GM Module WILL make a better stab at THIS file.

It asks a LOT of questions . . . .

Just goes to show HOW ADVANCED Midi 1.0 was back then - and how capable . . .

It demonstrates WELL what can be achieved when the GIANTS put their heads together

with a common purpose.

Would be nice if they would "Reconvene" with as much enthusiasm and give us a

Midi 2.0 to write home about . . .

Sadly, I don't think they believe that a (relatively) few "midi geeks" warrant the investment required.

(Sigh)

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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 pm

Oh I don't know about that.

The MIDI Manufacturers Association just ratified the addition of MPE (Midi polyphonic expression) so Roli's, Linnstruments, Eigenharps and so on will actually have a future instead of relying on their own proprietary approaches.

Once again, the industry is working together on MIDI. The inclusion of MPE should spark some action by the big boys like Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc. I think they have been waiting in the wings to see what happens.

MPE allows for some amazing expression. If you have never tried a Roli Seaboard, you really should.

It may not be called MIDI 2.0, but it's essentially that.
Last edited by 2ManyKeys on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby parametric » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:20 pm

2ManyKeys wrote:Oh I don't know about that.

The MIDI Manufacturers Association just ratified the addition of MPE (Midi polyphonic expression) so Roli's, Linnstruments, Eigenharps and so on will actually have a future instead of relying on their own proprietary approaches.

Once again, the industry is working together on MIDI. The inclusion of MPE should spark some action by the big boys like Yamaha, Korg, Roland, etc. I think they have been waiting on the wings to see what happens.


Ah OK, I think SysExJohn mentioned this a while back in Yamahamusicians . . . . .

I hadn't followed it up in depth . . .

If the Majors are looking at it - then perhaps interesting times are ideed - ahead . . . 8)

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Re: 32 track, 16 channel sequencer. How does that export?

Postby 2ManyKeys » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:13 am

They also adopted MIDI-CI which allows for a more automated MIDI configuration.

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/midi- ... cification

Here's the announcement for MPE.

https://www.midi.org/articles/midi-poly ... ession-mpe
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