So....Come e're Often?

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So....Come e're Often?

Postby Arevyn » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:36 pm

I've been perusing them internetz trying to find other places where there might be some Fusion love going on. I've come to the startling conclusion... that there really isnt much that I can find.

This site as well as perhaps the Fusioneer boards seem to be the most happening places for Fusion owners, and thats not saying much, sadly.

(Incoming rant...I apologize in advance :-) )

For some reason, I have a love for older (sometimes a very relative term) gear. I use a Digitech GNX4 and a Yamaha AG Stomp/MagicStomp for my guitar work, a Roland TD-9 for e-drumming, an old Fibes acoustic drumset for when Im playing drums live, a Yamaha CP33 and Alesis Fusion 6HD for keyboards. Before the 6HD, I used a QS 7.1 and a Roland U-20 before that.

It's funny, although tech seems to keep "improving", I find that so much of gear now is a dumbing-down of presets and set-it forget it mentality. Does anyone else see this trend? For example: The Digitech GNX4, it had so many settings and adjustments you could make your guitar (acoustic or electric) sound just like everything from Pat Metheny to Stephen Stills. It had an 8-track recorder that could be an 8-track looper, it had harmony and pitch adjustments for vocals it was a usb computer interface....the list can go on and on. But because it was so "complicated" not many took the time to learn it and use it to its full potential.
Sadly, it feels like a similar situation with the Fusion, although it can do more than I can even write about (mainly because I am still such a baby with this workstation) it feels like it was abandoned by many due to their lack of wanting to learn and grow and understand. Yes it's a deep board, but because of that it should make you want to dive in and really study its workings,right?

In looking around for other sites that have information, or others that have played around with the fusion, I find very few active people working with this great board.
Am I missing something? Is there a place where there's a great exchange of information passing around about these boards?
Jesse and Parametric, you two seem to be the most determined to keep an online presence for the Fusion alive. Any thoughts on why people don't seem to be that driven in regards to this great keyboard?

Ok....I think Im out of words for the moment. I apologize for the book :-D
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: So....Come e're Often?

Postby Jesse » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:59 pm

I can think of two reasons off the top of my head;
1. Not many people want to take the time to learn and create, they want instant gratification without having to do much of anything.
This applies to more than just the Alesis Fusion :(
If it doesn't do what you want modify it. If you don't know how read and learn how to modify it, and be sure you understand what you are doing.

2. People want the latest, greatest gadget. This fast paced throw away world we live in makes people lazy and wasteful.
If it's broken try to fix it before tossing it away, if you don't know how read and learn how to fix it, and be sure you understand what you are doing.

That's just my two cents

If you haven't already read the topic Psionic Fusion you should, there's a lot of really good info there :) http://www.promusicproducts.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4970
Tempus & Ludwig drums, Roto Toms-Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire mixer, AKG D112-Behringer, B2-Shure, Beta 58a mics, Win10, Audigy soundcard, Audition3 & East West Goliath sound bank
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Re: So....Come e're Often?

Postby parametric » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:55 pm

I agree with both your points Jesse . . . .

And Arevyn, yes, it is a shame that the Fusion was abandoned so early, but you are right.

The feature richness of the Fusion HAS to go hand in hand with enormous complexity.

I'm as guilty as the next in not having delved deeper into it.

My intentions have been good, insamuch as I purchased Klaus P Rausch's book "My Fusion Secrets" some time ago, but have yet to spend the concerted time WITH IT that is required to take the learning experience forward :oops:

My main interest is to compose using the Fusion, and ideas keep popping up which I have to address - and so I get distracted . . . .

ATM, I use the Fusion as an input device (The sequencer) to get the basic tracks down - and then export them (record from the S/PDif) as audio and thence into Reaper for finishing.

I'm trying to establish an MO of using the MIDI data as tracks from the Fusion - WITHIN Reaper (so making it easier to tweak/correct bum notes etc) before playing it back from Reaper, using the Fusion's Programs (as a sound Module) to finalise the result . . Which may or may not be recorded back to the Fusion's sequencer (if I wish) - to be played by it, as a song . . . (This to include Vocals or accoustic instruments as AUDIO tracks).

I do not find it easy to tweak midi INSIDE the sequencer such as cut/paste accurately - so for me it is a question of finding a way of combining the Fusion with Reaper in such a way that I UNDERSTAND and that I CAN WORK WITH . . .

Things are logistically difficult for me as my 8HD lives in my bedroom away from my desktop machine, and my 6HD is mostly in a conservatory, which is the only place I can record vocals in the early hours due to traffic noise.

My laptop and Akai EIE Pro can commute between the two Fusions as needed, but as a result, it is a ball-ache to prepare to do anything serious - and as you probably know, musical inspiration is no respecter of time of day :lol:

My Music, such as it is - is generally rather conventional in structure and is far from manipulating 4-bar "nuggets" and mass copy-paste operations - so it generally has to be played-in CORRECT. I don't use quantisation either as I feel it destroys the credibility of a natural performance (but that's just my opinion).

I think Klaus's book would be a good way in for you, if you work through the examples and probably, once the veil is lifted you can go as far as you want . . .

I have quite a collection of Klaus' Commercial Banks for the Fusion (as does Jesse) and can thoroughly recommend them - you will then have an enormous arsenal of instruments.

I've recently muddied the waters considerably by acquiring Komplete10 from NI - which indeed offers much scope but has its own usage problems and learning curve.

So, I'm a bit between two stools with it all ATM - and NEED to SERIOUSLY finalise a way of working that allows me to produce what I want, the WAY I want . . . :roll:

parametric
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

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Re: So....Come e're Often?

Postby Jesse » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:46 am

I sometimes use Finale to compose/record music using the Fusion as a midi device to record what I am playing and then restructuring it in Finale if desired or
I can import sheet music by scanning it in, once I have it the way I want it I can save it as a midi file and import it into the Fusion and I am able to change the
instruments using Fusions editor giving me the ability to hear how it sounds with different sounds/instruments and I can always print out my own sheet music in Finale.
I am a novice and I also am learning at a slow pace, but I enjoy the challenge. Creating and tweaking sounds is not easy for the inexperienced like me.
Tempus & Ludwig drums, Roto Toms-Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire mixer, AKG D112-Behringer, B2-Shure, Beta 58a mics, Win10, Audigy soundcard, Audition3 & East West Goliath sound bank
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Re: So....Come e're Often?

Postby Arevyn » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:16 pm

Thanks for the replies you guys!

Yeah, I have thought about buying the book to learn about the keyboard. The manual just doesnt seem to help me much. Its seem like just a listing of menus and options. Nothing to show any info on how to use those options.
I did buy the tutorial vids from Sudosonic. they've helped a bit. but again, they seem a little lacking in the "how would I use this in another application" department.
I mainly record multitrack things into Sonar X3 via a Scarlett 18i8 interface, but I am intrigued by the idea of multitrack recording on the fusion. Do you run your other instruments into the audio ports on the back of the Fusion?

Parametric, you mentioned Klaus' sounds...I have looked all over their website, but I can't find anything for the fusion. I recall reading a few posts on here that they were going to stop carrying the fusion sounds. Do you know how I would go about getting those sounds?

Do you guys play other instruments than just keyboard/piano? What else do you play and how do you incorporate your fusion into your studio setup?

Thanks again in advance for the interchange! :-)
6HD+SSD - Yamaha CP33 - Casio PX5S - Ibanez AS93 with Graphtech Acoustiphonic System - Crafter SAT Hybrid Acoustic-Electric - Washburn WI64DL - Taylor 214CE QM Anniversary - 1982 Washburn D28 - Fibes Acoustic Bop Drums - Roland TD9 Hybrid kit -
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Re: So....Come e're Often?

Postby parametric » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:38 pm

Arevyn wrote:Thanks for the replies you guys!

Yeah, I have thought about buying the book to learn about the keyboard. The manual just doesnt seem to help me much. Its seem like just a listing of menus and options. Nothing to show any info on how to use those options.


That's pretty much the view of everyone, Arevyn . . The question "why would I want to do this?" is missing. A few examples would have been nice.

Arevyn wrote:I did buy the tutorial vids from Sudosonic. they've helped a bit. but again, they seem a little lacking in the "how would I use this in another application" department.


Yeah, I have those too. A brave attempt, but they flounder a bit, still lacking explanation of why you would want to do this . . IMO

Arevyn wrote:I mainly record multitrack things into Sonar X3 via a Scarlett 18i8 interface, but I am intrigued by the idea of multitrack recording on the fusion. Do you run your other instruments into the audio ports on the back of the Fusion?


The eight track recording ability of the Fusion was one of it's selling points for sure. I for one have NOT used it, but I'm sure it would do what it says. It records at 24bit 44.1Khz and eight tracks of MONO remember.

ONE use, is to route the Fusion's Programs to the Audio OUTs, use patch leads to connect to the Audio INs and then record them as AUDIO Tracks(either for continued use WITHIN the Sequencer - OR to export and use in a DAW.

The Fusion is well-equipped with INs and OUTs. ALL are balanced and configurable in SW for -10dbA (consumer) or +4dbA (Pro) level. I DO use the S/PDif out extensively to record soloed tracks to a digital recorder (for transfer to a DAW) as well as recording the complete mix, when required.

The ADAT is a bit strange (which is curious, as it is Alesis' technology) inasmuch as it is NOT configured as simply eight tracks - the Manual describes just how . . .

Arevyn wrote:Parametric, you mentioned Klaus' sounds...I have looked all over their website, but I can't find anything for the fusion. I recall reading a few posts on here that they were going to stop carrying the fusion sounds. Do you know how I would go about getting those sounds?


Klaus' extensive catalogue is here: http://www.backintimerecords.de/bitr022.htm
I have most, but not all of them.

I think what you heard is that HollowSun's Steve Howell (who sadly passed away in May of 2014) had decided to stop supporting the Fusion and to concentrate on NI Kontakt . . . .Shortly before he died, he did release his three commercial Banks, Nebulae, Novacord and Taurus for an EOL offer.

Mario - Steve's colleague has taken over the day to day running of HollowSun - is continuing to offer these banks (Now FREE). . . .

HERE: https://sites.fastspring.com/hollowsun/instant/fuseol

Fusion End of Life Package . . . .

Arevyn wrote:Do you guys play other instruments than just keyboard/piano? What else do you play and how do you incorporate your fusion into your studio setup?

Thanks again in advance for the interchange! :-)


I use the Fusion primarily to get ideas initially recorded and experiment with instrumentation for extra tracks. These are then transferred to Reaper for finishing.

I'm HOPING to go further with using the Fusion more closely with Reaper (for editing the MIDI Data), but still requiring to use the Fusion's SOUNDs in Reaper for the final mix.

Whilst it is theoretically possible to do it ALL in the Fusion, I don't find the micro-editing of midi in the Fusion easy or convenient.

The Fusion is enormous fun to play. I came primarily from a REAL Piano, and the 8HD keybed is superb IMO. I also have a 6HD, and have to say it is the best Synth keybed I've played so far. I prefer it to my MOXF6 and my Akai ADVANCE61 . . .
I used to do a bit of guitar, but don't these days (smashed knuckle in a M/C accident)

Other than that, I sing . . .

That's about it :lol:

parametric
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

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